Hi everybody.

I have another question about the use of sweet words to say to the one
you love (girlfriend, boyfriend, son, grandma...).

In Spanish is tipycal the use of a diminutive (diminutivo):

corazón: corazoncito
amor: amorcito
tesoro: tesorito
dulzura: dulzurita
cariño: cariñito
princesa: princesita


But I don´t know how to use those diminutives in English.

A perro flaco se le suben las pulgas.
   Fleas jump on a skinny dog.
   Fleas jump on a sick dog.
   The weak attract problems.
   To the weak of character everyone is irritating.

   A quien madruga Dios lo ayuda.
   Who rises early, God helps.
   God helps those who get started early.

   A río revuelto, ganancia de pescadores.
   It is good fishing in troubled waters.

   Agua pasada no mueve molino.
   Water run by will not turn a mill.

   Al hombre que camina no se le paran las moscas encima.
   Flies won’t land on a walking man.
   A rolling stone gathers no moss.

   Al mal tiempo, buena cara.
   To bad weather, a happy face.
   Keep a stiff upper lip.
   Hay que saber sobrellevar los problemas de la vida.
   You have to understand how overcome the problems of life.

   Al pedo como cenicero de moto.
   As useless as an ashtray on a motorcycle
   (Tan inútil como cenicero de moto)

   Al perro y a al gato no les pongas en el mismo plato.
   Don’t put the cat and dog at the same dish.
   Don’t pour oil on the fire.

   Al que madruga Dios lo ayuda.
   The early bird gets the worm.

   Amor con amor se paga.
   Love is repaid with love.
   Repay love with love.

   Amor de gato se ve por el tejado.
   Cat’s love is seen on the roof.

   Aquí hay gato encerrado.
   Here, there is a cat shut in.
   Here there is locked up cat.
   There’s something fishy going on.

   Agua que no has de beber déjala correr.
   If you are not going to drink the water, let it run.
   Interpretation: If you don't need something, leave it for others to use.

   ¡Andá a cantarle a Gardel! (Argentine idiom)
   Go sing it to Gardel!
   Take your problems elsewhere.

   Andar con pie de plomo.
   To walk on egg shells.

   Árbol que nace torcido, jamás su tronco endereza
   A born-twisted tree never grows straight
   Interpretation: It is hard to break old habits.

   Arroparse hasta donde alcance la cobija
   To live within one's means.


   Aunque la mona se vista de seda, mona queda.
   A monkey, dressed in silk remains a monkey.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.




---------------------------------

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¡Hahahaha! ¡Pobrecillas! Me he reído un montón con esta historia. ¡Gracias
Martin!

Pilar


Martin Zarate <rmzarate@...> a écrit :                                
Tres hermanas de 96, 94 y 92 años de edad vivían en su casa juntas.  Una noche
la de 96 años empieza a llenar la tina para darse un  baño,pone un pie dentro de
la tina, hace una pausa y grita:  ¿ALGUIEN SABE SI ME ESTABA METIENDO A TOMAR UN
BAÑO O ESTABA SALIENDO  DE BAÑARME?    La hermana de 94 años le responde:  NO
SE, ESPERÁ QUE SUBO PARA VER. Empieza a subir las escaleras hace una pausa y
grita:  ESTABA YO SUBIENDO LAS ESCALERAS O LAS ESTABA  BAJANDO?    La hermana
menor de 92 años estaba sentada en la cocina tomándose una  taza de té y
escuchando a sus hermanas. Mueve su cabeza, piensa:  "EN VERDAD ESPERO NUNCA
LLEGAR A SER ASI DE OLVIDADIZA,  TOCO  MADERA", toca tres veces la mesa para que
se le conceda ese deseo y  luego les responde: AHI VOY A AYUDARLAS, SOLO DÉJENME
VER QUIEN ESTA  TOCANDO LA PUERTA.

    There were three sister of 96, 94 and 92 years of age living together  in the
same house.  One night, the 96 years old sister, began to fill the bath tub and 
when she put a foot in the water, stopped and shouted aloud "Does  anybody know
if I was beggining to take a bath or if I was finishing  one?"      The 94 years
old sister answered: "I don't know but I'll be right up  there to see!" She
began to go upstairs, stopped and shouted :" Was I  going upstairs or was I
going downstairs?    The younger sister, 92 years old, was in the kitchen 
sipping a cup of  tea and listening to her sisters. Shaking her head she thinks
to herself: "I trully hope I never become forgetful, knock on wood." She  knocks
three times on the table so that the wish will come true and  then she answers
"I am coming to help you, just let me see who in  knoking the door first.


  ---------------------------------

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  Todo lo que tenés que saber sobre Elecciones Presidenciales 2007 encontralo en
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   http://ar.news.yahoo.com/elecciones2007/

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Ignacio -- It is not common in England any more either, I think.
The lines Norma quoted from Hamlet were written in the late 1500s or early
1600s, while medieval practices were either still being done (castles, walled
cities, battering rams, etc) or were in the active memory of Shakespeare's
audience.

I'm glad Norma found the quote, but meaning behind the idiom was from
before Shakespeare wrote it. He was, like modern playwrights, writing for his
audience's political understandings and their current idiom.
Lynn

>Norma Iris Gustin escribió:
>> Origin
>> From Shakespeare's Hamlet, 1603:
>> HAMLET Ay, marry, is't:
>> But to my mind, though I am native here
>> And to the manner born, it is a custom
>> More honour'd in the breach than the observance.
>>
>> En castellano: es más premiado quien viola la
>> ley que quien la cumple. Es como hecha la ley
>> hecha la trampa. Los que violan las leyes
>> difícilmente pagan multas.
>
>Como yo lo entiendo, una traducción más fiel sería:
>"es más lo que no se cumple que lo que se cumple"
>(dicho de una regla o norma). El texto no hace
>referencia a premios o castigos: solamente al uso.
>
>Esta cita de "Hamlet" (que por cierto, no me parece el
>mejor ejemplo) se refiere a una costumbre que
>aparentemente se está perdiendo.
>
>Recordemos que esta expresión, "more honoured in the
>breach than in the observance," según nos dijo Sue, no
>es común en los Estados Unidos. Sin embargo, es
>probable que se entienda en el Reino Unido.
>
>Saludos,
>
>Ignacio
>Buenos Aires, Argentina

LA PALABRA DEL DÍA  fallecer
   Frecuentemente se usa como equivalente a morir, tal vez como eufemismo, pero
la sinonimia no es muy exacta. Fallecer es morir en el sentido de ‘llegar al fin
de la vida’, como ocurre en la vejez o al cabo de una larga enfermedad, tiene un
matiz de desfallecimiento, de proceso gradual. El buen uso del lenguaje exige
que no se utilice fallecer para referirse a una muerte súbita o en un accidente:
suena muy mal ‘fallecieron ochenta personas en la caída de un avión’.
   La palabra proviene del verbo latino fallere (engañar, no cumplir, ser infiel,
fingir), a partir del cual se formó también fallar. De este verbo se derivó el
adjetivo latino falax, fallacis (impostor, pérfido, mentiroso) y también el
vocablo del latín vulgar falla, que dio lugar a fallecer y a desfallecer. El
supino de fallere era falsus, de donde provienen falso y falta.
   Cabe precisar que el fallo de un juez es palabra de origen diferente: el
castellano antiguo fallar (hallar, encontrar, darse con).



---------------------------------

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Tres hermanas de 96, 94 y 92 años de edad vivían en su casa juntas.  Una noche
la de 96 años empieza a llenar la tina para darse un  baño,pone un pie dentro de
la tina, hace una pausa y grita:  ¿ALGUIEN SABE SI ME ESTABA METIENDO A TOMAR UN
BAÑO O ESTABA SALIENDO  DE BAÑARME?    La hermana de 94 años le responde:  NO
SE, ESPERÁ QUE SUBO PARA VER. Empieza a subir las escaleras hace una pausa y
grita:  ESTABA YO SUBIENDO LAS ESCALERAS O LAS ESTABA  BAJANDO?    La hermana
menor de 92 años estaba sentada en la cocina tomándose una  taza de té y
escuchando a sus hermanas. Mueve su cabeza, piensa:  "EN VERDAD ESPERO NUNCA
LLEGAR A SER ASI DE OLVIDADIZA,  TOCO  MADERA", toca tres veces la mesa para que
se le conceda ese deseo y  luego les responde: AHI VOY A AYUDARLAS, SOLO DÉJENME
VER QUIEN ESTA  TOCANDO LA PUERTA.

   There were three sister of 96, 94 and 92 years of age living together  in the
same house.  One night, the 96 years old sister, began to fill the bath tub and 
when she put a foot in the water, stopped and shouted aloud "Does  anybody know
if I was beggining to take a bath or if I was finishing  one?"      The 94 years
old sister answered: "I don't know but I'll be right up  there to see!" She
began to go upstairs, stopped and shouted :" Was I  going upstairs or was I
going downstairs?    The younger sister, 92 years old, was in the kitchen 
sipping a cup of  tea and listening to her sisters. Shaking her head she thinks
to herself: "I trully hope I never become forgetful, knock on wood." She  knocks
three times on the table so that the wish will come true and  then she answers
"I am coming to help you, just let me see who in  knoking the door first.




---------------------------------

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Todo lo que tenés que saber sobre Elecciones Presidenciales 2007 encontralo en
Yahoo! Noticias.
  http://ar.news.yahoo.com/elecciones2007/

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

We have been talking about "informal" ways to say goodbye.

If you are ending a formal letter or email, here are some possibilities:

    Yours sincerely,

    Your faithfully,

    Sincerely,

    Yours truly,

    Kind regards,

    Respectfully,

    Respectfully submitted


Sue

OK -- here's a few:

tata (mostly British)
chaio (chow) Italian these are used in America

later, 'gator (from a popular song of the 1960s, "See you later, alligator;
After a while, crocodile.")

TTYL (Internet for "Talk to you later"

"'Till ....(whatever day or time)", as "'Till Tuesday"

French terms used in America: adieu, au revoir

We use Spanish terms also, fairly commonly, in America
hasta luego
hasta la vista

A common greeting is:
Yo! (Spanish, but used in black rap/street language as "hi!")

There were more in my brain but they leaked out...
Lynn



>Heather Fontan wrote:
>> Wow! There are many ways to say goodbye in
>> English!
>>
>> Bye, goodbye, see you later, "later," take it
>> easy, take care.
>>
>> I am sure someone can add some more to the list.
>
>Perhaps:
>
>talk to you later, so long (very informal, I guess), I
>look forward to hearing from you (formal).
>
>Anyone else?
>
>> Gonzalo wrote:
>> Thanks Heather for your alterations. (is this
>> the correct word for "correcciones"?)
>
>I would have written "corrections"
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Ignacio

Heather Fontan wrote:
> Wow! There are many ways to say goodbye in
> English!
>
> Bye, goodbye, see you later, "later," take it
> easy, take care.
>
> I am sure someone can add some more to the list.

Perhaps:

talk to you later, so long (very informal, I guess), I
look forward to hearing from you (formal).

Anyone else?

> Gonzalo wrote:
> Thanks Heather for your alterations. (is this
> the correct word for "correcciones"?)

I would have written "corrections"

I hope this helps.

Ignacio



        __________________________________  Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes
für Bastler und Hobby Handwerker. www.yahoo.de/clever

Hola Edgar:

¡Bienvenido! Muy bien que te hayas presentado en
inglés. De eso se trata el grupo: de poder practicar y
aprender. Y de ayudar cuando uno puede, por supuesto
:-)

Unos comentarios sobre tu mensaje:

Edgar Soto escribió:
> Hi!!!
>
> My name is Edgar and i'm learning english. I'm
> mexican, so , i can help you whit your spanish,
> but you will help me whit my english. How you
> see?  Nice to meet you Everybody!!
>
> Regards!

1. Un detalle, pero para tener en cuenta al escribir:
en inglés, como en en español, hay palabras que se
deben escribir en mayúscula, estén o no al comienzo de
una oración. En particular, el pronombre "I" (yo), los
nombres de los idiomas, como "English" y "Spanish", y
las nacionalidades, como "Mexican", entre otros, se
escriben siempre en mayúscula.

2. Seguramente un error de tipeo: "i can help you whit
your spanish" debería ser "I can help you _with_ your
Spanish".

3. "... but you will help me whit my english": no está
mal, pero yo sugeriría escribir: "... and you can help
me _with_ my English". Suena más amable.

4. "How you see?": interpreto que quisiste decir "¿Qué
te parece?". En ese caso, yo diría "What do you
think?".

En función de esto, el texto quedaría:

"My name is Edgar and I'm learning English. I'm
Mexican, so I can help you with your Spanish, and you
can help me with my English. What do you think? Nice
to meet you everybody!"

Espero que estos comentarios sean útiles. Como
siempre, si alguien quiere agregar algo, bienvenido.

Saludos,

Ignacio



       Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?
www.yahoo.de/mail

Norma Iris Gustin escribió:
> Origin
> From Shakespeare's Hamlet, 1603:
> HAMLET Ay, marry, is't:
> But to my mind, though I am native here
> And to the manner born, it is a custom
> More honour'd in the breach than the observance.
>
> En castellano: es más premiado quien viola la
> ley que quien la cumple. Es como hecha la ley
> hecha la trampa. Los que violan las leyes
> difícilmente pagan multas.

Como yo lo entiendo, una traducción más fiel sería:
"es más lo que no se cumple que lo que se cumple"
(dicho de una regla o norma). El texto no hace
referencia a premios o castigos: solamente al uso.

Esta cita de "Hamlet" (que por cierto, no me parece el
mejor ejemplo) se refiere a una costumbre que
aparentemente se está perdiendo.

Recordemos que esta expresión, "more honoured in the
breach than in the observance," según nos dijo Sue, no
es común en los Estados Unidos. Sin embargo, es
probable que se entienda en el Reino Unido.

Saludos,

Ignacio
Buenos Aires, Argentina



        __________________________________  Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes
für Bastler und Hobby Handwerker. www.yahoo.de/clever

Wow! There are many ways to say goodbye in English!

Bye, goodbye, see you later, "later," take it easy, take care.

I am sure someone can add some more to the list.

Gonzalo <gon_mora_a@...> wrote:                               Thanks
Heather for your alterations. (is this the correct word
  for "correcciones"?)

  I know that the hardest is to try be natural speaking a language que
  it isn´t the language of our parents.

  I´m studing a master in finance in the Complutense University of
  Madrid, and I know too that the knowledge of the English language is
  something crucial for the proffesional carreier... and here I am...
  learning a little more.

  Only a question: in the farewell of a conversation, in Spanish we
  have so much ways to say bye, like: hasta luego, hasta otra, te veo
  luego, un abrazo, un beso, saludos a todos (también saluditos para
  todos), con Dios, (id con Dios), a cuidarse, da recuerdos a alguien,
  da un saludo a alguien (da un saludo a alguien de mi parte)... How
  are those expression in English?

  Bye.






Heather Fontan
  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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Origin
   From Shakespeare's Hamlet, 1603:
     HAMLET Ay, marry, is't:
But to my mind, though I am native here
And to the manner born, it is a custom
More honour'd in the breach than the observance.

   En castellano: es más premiado quien viola la ley que quien la cumple. Es como
hecha la ley hecha la trampa. Los que violan las leyes difícilmente pagan
multas.

   Un beso, un abrazo y todo mi cariño


Mari Nawi <mari_nawi@...> escribió:          I've loved the explanation of
this idiom. Thanks so much. It's so interesting to know the origin! And it makes
so easy to remember the expression, don't you all think?

Pilar

Hi!  My name is Edgar and i'm new in the group. Actually i'm learning English. I
don't know much english but i defend myself. I'm mexican and i like this group.
That's cool.

   Espero poder aprender junto con todos ustedes el Ingles y pues yo tambien
poder ayudar a las personas que tengan dudas en su Español. Me parece que es un
grupo formidable, el cual ayuda ralmente al las personas. Mucho gusto! Y espero
podamos ser amigos!!

   Saludos!!

Susan McGarvie <susuzz27@...> escribió:
           Hi Sue, Thanks for the Welcome!!!!
Actually, I was wanting to find a group with friendly helpful people...ahahaha
I'll try help as much as possible!!!

Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue
To: Espanol-Ingles@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Es-En] Psychiatric Hospital Answering Machine

Hello Sue!

Welcome to the group! This is a very helpful, friendly group. Having
fluency in both languages is wonderful!

My name is Sue, also, short for Susan : )

Sue

On Oct 29, 2007 6:16 PM, Susan C. McGarvie <susuzz27@...> wrote:
>
>>
> Hi!!! I'm Sue and I'm new to the group...Tengo fluidez en ambos
> idiomas y conozco el chiste...
>
> Lo de CRAWL YOUR CALL...SERIA "TRACE YOUR CALL"
>
> Aca If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully ... And a little voice
> > will tell you which number internal pressure. SERIA A LITTLE VOICE
> WILL TELL YOU WHICH EXTENSION NUMBER TO PRESS
>
> Hope it helps!!!!
>
> Besos,
> Sue
>

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Hi!!!

   My name is Edgar and i'm learning english. I'm mexican, so , i can help you
whit your spanish, but you will help me whit my english. How you see?
   Nice to meet you Everybody!!

   Regards!

Heather Fontan <heatherfontan@...> escribió:
           Hola Gonzalo,

Mucho gusto a conocerte. Me llamo Heather, y soy profesora de espanol para
chicos (grados 1-8). Mi espanol no es perfecto, asi que me alegro que exista
este grupo.

Te hice algunas correcciones:
Hi Everybody,
I'm new to this site. My name is Gonzale and my first language is Spanish, but
I'm trying to improve my English. I know that I have a long road to walk before
I start using English in a natural way. Nice to meet you all!

Gonzalo <gon_mora_a@...> wrote: Hi every body.

I´m new in this site. My name is Gonzalo and más first languaje is
spanish, but i´m training to improbe my english. I know thant i have a
long road to walk before start to using the english whith in a real
nature way.

Nice to meet you all¡¡





Heather Fontan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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Thank you, Pilar.
And my apologies, especially to new comers to English who may have been
confused by my typos.

The following sentence:
> This is one reason castles began to dig moats (trenches) around their
  outside walls and will them with water and have a draw bridge which could
  be pulled up to that the attacking forces could not ram a battering ram
  into the gate.

Should have been:
> This is one reason castles began to dig moats (trenches) around their
  outside walls and FILL them with water and have a draw bridge which could
  be pulled up SO that the attacking forces could not ram a battering ram
  into the gate.

I hope that is a little clearer and it is a lesson to me to avoid typing
when it is past, way past, my bed time!
Lynn

  >I've loved the explanation of this idiom. Thanks so much. It's so
interesting to know the origin! And it makes so easy to remember the
expression, don't you all think?
>
>Pilar

Thanks Heather for your alterations. (is this the correct word
for "correcciones"?)

I know that the hardest is to try be natural speaking a language que
it isn´t the language of our parents.

I´m studing a master in finance in the Complutense University of
Madrid, and I know too that the knowledge of the English language is
something crucial for the proffesional carreier... and here I am...
learning a little more.

Only a question: in the farewell of a conversation, in Spanish we
have so much ways to say bye, like: hasta luego, hasta otra, te veo
luego, un abrazo, un beso, saludos a todos (también saluditos para
todos), con Dios, (id con Dios), a cuidarse, da recuerdos a alguien,
da un saludo a alguien (da un saludo a alguien de mi parte)... How
are those expression in English?

Bye.

¡Hola!

Aparte de los idiomas, las matemáticas siempre me
interesaron. No es exactamente mi especialidad, pero
está bastante cerca. Aparte, hay una similitud
asombrosa entre ambos.

Algunos comentarios sobre el vocabulario:

Sue escribió:
> la figura
> figure

En mi opinión, esto no es correcto. En inglés,
"figure" se refiere a un valor, especialmente uno
incluído en un reporte. Por ejemplo: "Social trends
show that this figure will raise to 31 by next year."

En español, "(la) figura" se puede referir a una forma
por ejemplo, pero nunca a un valor. Es muy común (por
lo menos en Argentina) hablar de "la figura" para
referirse al buen estado físico. Es muy común escuchar
a muchas personas decir "Hay que cuidar la figura".

> el largo
> length

También: "(la) longitud"

> la línea
> line

Tengo entendido que "line" se corresponde con dos
palabras en español. Una por supuesto es "(la) línea",
como está indicado, y la otra es "(la) recta".

Matemáticamente, una recta es el conjunto de puntos
que satisface la llamada "ecuación de la recta" en
alguna de sus formas (como por ejemplo, en forma
implícita, Ax+By+C=0).

Una línea es un concepto más general. Así, una recta
se puede considerar como un tipo de línea.

Saludos,

Ignacio
Buenos Aires, Argentina



        __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den
schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

Claro que si!! Para eso estamos en el grupo, no?? :-D  Para ayudarnos.

Pilar



Pedro Ignacio Errico <ignafiuba@...> a écrit :
Mari Nawi wrote:
  > I've loved the explanation of this idiom. Thanks
  > so much. It's so interesting to know the origin!
  > And it makes so easy to remember the expression,
  > don't you all think?
  >
  > Pilar

  I agree. Lynn's message was very clear and thorough. I
  didn't know the difference between a mobile phone and
  a cell phone either. Thank you, Lynn! I don't think an
  engineer could have done it better ;-)

  I will add that nowadays, when a company's information
  has been compromised, IT specialists say that there
  has been a "security breach". This term is much more
  clear to me now.

  Pilar: Voy a atreverme a hacer un par de pequeñas
  observaciones de tu mensaje. Yo hubiera escrito:
  1. "I loved the explanation ..." (pasado simple)
  2. "And it makes _it_ so easy to remember ..."

  ¡Comentarios y correcciones son siempre bienvenidos!

  Saludos,

  Ignacio








"Le monde est une comédie pour ceux qui pensent, une tragédie pour ceux qui
sentent." - Horace

---------------------------------
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[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Mari Nawi wrote:
> I've loved the explanation of this idiom. Thanks
> so much. It's so interesting to know the origin!
> And it makes so easy to remember the expression,
> don't you all think?
>
> Pilar

I agree. Lynn's message was very clear and thorough. I
didn't know the difference between a mobile phone and
a cell phone either. Thank you, Lynn! I don't think an
engineer could have done it better ;-)

I will add that nowadays, when a company's information
has been compromised, IT specialists say that there
has been a "security breach". This term is much more
clear to me now.

Pilar: Voy a atreverme a hacer un par de pequeñas
observaciones de tu mensaje. Yo hubiera escrito:
1. "I loved the explanation ..." (pasado simple)
2. "And it makes _it_ so easy to remember ..."

¡Comentarios y correcciones son siempre bienvenidos!

Saludos,

Ignacio


Lynn wrote:
> A "breach" is an opening, like a breach in a
> wall is where part of the wall is broken away.
> When wars were fought against walled cities or
> fortified castles, the attacking forces
> attempted to breach the walls. They might use
> war machines which threw huge stones at the tops
> of the walls to knock them apart from the top.
> Or they might attempt to bash in a castle
> door/gate.  This is one reason castles began to
> dig moats (trenches) around their outside walls
> and will them with water and have a draw bridge
> which could be pulled up to that the attacking
> forces could not ram a battering ram into the
> gate. Another name for such a gate or doorway
> was "portcullis", which is Latin in origin.
>
> Anyway, as soon as an opening was made in the
> wall or gate so that the enemy forces could
> enter, the first men coming through the opening
> were said to be "in the breach". To have the
> enemy coming in the breach meant that the
> city/castle had lost the battle.

<snip>


       Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s
mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail

matemáticas, parte 2
mathematics, part 2


el diámetro
diameter


la diferencia
difference


el dígito
digit


la dimensión
dimension


la distancia
distance


la igualdad
equal


la ecuación
equation


el equivalente
equivalent


el exponente
exponent


la figura
figure


la fórmula
formula


la fracción
fraction


la altura
height


el largo
length


la línea
line


la lógica
logic



Sue

More on this post.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Sue. It's good for us to remember
teachers who have influenced us. I know when I heard that the head of the
Spanish department in the college I graduated from died, I was sad.

Yes, Sue is correct; there are many differences in types of English. The
primary difference between Canadian English, British English, Australian
English, American English and English of the various islands is
pronunciation. Since English normally does not use accent marks, it is hard
to explain to a person learning English, but sometimes the syllabile which
is stressed is completely different.

The spelling differences are primarily that British and Australian English
add a "u" in some words, usually next to an "o", which American English
does not add. My mind is blank at the moment.

The slangs and idioms are also very different. Even the alphabet is
different. Both American and British English use "z" for the final letter,
but Americans pronounce its name "zee", while British call it "zed".
Lynn

>Hello Ignacio!
>
>I have to tell you that this is the first time I have ever heard this
>idiom.  Since honor is spelled "honoured" which as you know is British, I am
>guessing it is probably an idiom which has stayed on that side of "the
>pond."  And as you mentioned, it seems to come from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
>
>Now if Lynn were around, she might know this better than I, since she has a
>lot of knowledge that I don't have, and she might contradict me.  But
>speaking from my point of view, the idiom is unknown to me.
>
>As for "mobile phone," my son informed me that this is commonly said in UK
>and Australia to refer to a "cell phone."  He has heard it pronounced, and
>"mobile" is pronounced with a long "i".  "Mobile" would then rhyme with
>"smile," "I,"night."  This is unlike what I say.  I would say it "mobile" to
>rhyme with "full," "pull," etc.
>
>The other spellings are the same as in the US.
>
>There are many differences between British English and American English!! :
>)
>
>This is totally off the topic....but the teacher I had in the university who
>taught the classes in Shakespeare died recently, and her funeral was
>yesterday.  She was a very sweet lady. Whenever I think of Shakespeare, I
>think of her.
>
>Sue

I've loved the explanation of this idiom. Thanks so much. It's so interesting to
know the origin! And it makes so easy to remember the expression, don't you all
think?

Pilar


CLHW@... a écrit :                               Hi Sue and everyone
else!
  I'm here -- just very far behind on reading email.

  I thought about commenting on the "in the breach" idiom, but didn't do it
  until I read the below from Sue.

  "in the breach" is actually a military term in origin. It is also from the
  Dark Ages or 1200 to 1500 A.D., in Europe, especially England.

  A "breach" is an opening, like a breach in a wall is where part of the wall
  is broken away. When wars were fought against walled cities or fortified
  castles, the attacking forces attempted to breach the walls. They might use
  war machines which threw huge stones at the tops of the walls to knock them
  apart from the top. Or they might attempt to bash in a castle door/gate.
  This is one reason castles began to dig moats (trenches) around their
  outside walls and will them with water and have a draw bridge which could
  be pulled up to that the attacking forces could not ram a battering ram
  into the gate. Another name for such a gate or doorway was "portcullis",
  which is Latin in origin.

  Anyway, as soon as an opening was made in the wall or gate so that the
  enemy forces could enter, the first men coming through the opening were
  said to be "in the breach". To have the enemy coming in the breach meant
  that the city/castle had lost the battle.

  Ignacio's original quote was talking about telephone etiquette (a French
  word!) which is observed more in the breach, meaning that what was once
  etiquette on the telephone is being ignored in this day of ubiquitous cell
  phones, cell phone pictures, text messaging, etc. There are instances of
  downright rudeness which my husband really gets mad about, like taking
  calls on the telephone in public places, like a concert hall or movie
  theatre, and loudly carrying on a conversation with someone who is not even
  present, to the distress of all around the speaker.

  So, this long discourse means that people who use poor etiquette on the
  phone are jumping into the break down of polite useage of telephones.

  As to "cell phone" versus "mobile phone" -- they are two different types of
  telephone. Your "old, normal" telephone is now called a "land line" because
  the telephone is tethered to a wall jack and can only be carried around as
  far as the cord allows.

  A mobile telephone is actually a radio transmitter. So is a cell phone. The
  difference is that a cell phone carries its own battery around and only
  needs to be charged up. A mobile telephone has a base station to which it
  must be returned fairly frequently. The mobile telephone cannot be beyond
  the range of its base. The cell phone has no base station, but maintains
  its radio contact with the towers and needs to be in range of towers. A
  mobile telephone has a limited range of a few hundred feet. Some cell
  telephones can be carried all over the world because towers which will
  service them are around the globe or some of the cell phones may actually
  operate off satellites.

  My knowledge of the engineering involved is limited, so my explanation may
  be poor. But, although a cell phone is mobile (can be moved and does not
  have a cord), it is not the same as a mobile telephone, which can be moved
  but has a base station.

  Well, it's past bed time here, so I'll send this out and look tomorrow to
  see if there was more for me to answer. I am about 2 - 3 days behind on
  answering (and reading) email, so please bear with me.
  Lynn

  >Hello Ignacio!
  >
  >I have to tell you that this is the first time I have ever heard this
  >idiom.  Since honor is spelled "honoured" which as you know is British, I am
  >guessing it is probably an idiom which has stayed on that side of "the
  >pond."  And as you mentioned, it seems to come from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
  >
  >Now if Lynn were around, she might know this better than I, since she has a
  >lot of knowledge that I don't have, and she might contradict me.  But
  >speaking from my point of view, the idiom is unknown to me.
  >
  >As for "mobile phone," my son informed me that this is commonly said in UK
  >and Australia to refer to a "cell phone."  He has heard it pronounced, and
  >"mobile" is pronounced with a long "i".  "Mobile" would then rhyme with
  >"smile," "I,"night."  This is unlike what I say.  I would say it "mobile" to
  >rhyme with "full," "pull," etc.
  >
  >The other spellings are the same as in the US.
  >
  >There are many differences between British English and American English!! :
  >)
  >
  >This is totally off the topic....but the teacher I had in the university who
  >taught the classes in Shakespeare died recently, and her funeral was
  >yesterday.  She was a very sweet lady. Whenever I think of Shakespeare, I
  >think of her.
  >
  >Sue
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >On Oct 30, 2007 12:56 AM, Pedro Ignacio Errico <ignafiuba@...>
  >wrote:
  >
  >>   Hello everyone,
  >>
  >> This is an excerpt from a message that was posted in
  >> another list today:
  >>
  >> "That is a rule of telephone etiquette that is
  >> probably honoured more in the breach than in the
  >> observance these days when everybody has a mobile
  >> phone."
  >>
  >> (Referring to what one should say when picking up the
  >> phone)
  >>
  >> It was written by someone from the UK.
  >>
  >> At first, the expression "more honoured in the breach
  >> than in the observance" baffled me. I looked it up in
  >> my dictionary, but there was no reference to it.
  >>
  >> I was wondering if our members from the US understand
  >> this idiom. If so, do you use it?
  >>
  >> As for the spelling of words: in the US, people would
  >> write 'honor' instead of 'honour'. Are there any other
  >> words in the text I quoted above that look (or sound)
  >> different from what you're used to?
  >>
  >> For instance, how about 'mobile phone'? I think both
  >> 'cell phone' and 'mobile (phone)' are common in the
  >> US, but I'm not completely sure.
  >>
  >> If you are wondering what the expression means (I
  >> was!):
  >>
  >> A simple web search immediatly revealed that it means
  >> "a rule which is more often broken than observed."
  >> Apparently, it has its origin in Shakespeare's
  >> "Hamlet".
  >>
  >> Source: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/250200.html
  >>
  >> As usual, your comments and corrections are most
  >> welcome!
  >>
  >> Ignacio
  >>
  >> Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?
  >> www.yahoo.de/mail






"Le monde est une comédie pour ceux qui pensent, une tragédie pour ceux qui
sentent." - Horace

---------------------------------
  Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Hola Gonzalo,

    Mucho gusto a conocerte. Me llamo Heather, y soy profesora de espanol para
chicos (grados 1-8). Mi espanol no es perfecto, asi que me alegro que exista
este grupo.

Te hice algunas correcciones:
Hi Everybody,
    I'm new to this site. My name is Gonzale and my first language is Spanish,
but I'm trying to improve my English. I know that I have a long road to walk
before I start using English in a natural way. Nice to meet you all!

Gonzalo <gon_mora_a@...> wrote:                               Hi every
body.

  I´m new in this site. My name is Gonzalo and más first languaje is
  spanish, but i´m training to improbe my english. I know thant i have a
  long road to walk before start to using the english whith in a real
  nature way.

  Nice to meet you all¡¡






Heather Fontan
  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Hi Sue and everyone else!
I'm here -- just very far behind on reading email.

I thought about commenting on the "in the breach" idiom, but didn't do it
until I read the below from Sue.

"in the breach" is actually a military term in origin. It is also from the
Dark Ages or 1200 to 1500 A.D., in Europe, especially England.

A "breach" is an opening, like a breach in a wall is where part of the wall
is broken away. When wars were fought against walled cities or fortified
castles, the attacking forces attempted to breach the walls. They might use
war machines which threw huge stones at the tops of the walls to knock them
apart from the top. Or they might attempt to bash in a castle door/gate.
This is one reason castles began to dig moats (trenches) around their
outside walls and will them with water and have a draw bridge which could
be pulled up to that the attacking forces could not ram a battering ram
into the gate. Another name for such a gate or doorway was "portcullis",
which is Latin in origin.

Anyway, as soon as an opening was made in the wall or gate so that the
enemy forces could enter, the first men coming through the opening were
said to be "in the breach". To have the enemy coming in the breach meant
that the city/castle had lost the battle.

Ignacio's original quote was talking about telephone etiquette (a French
word!) which is observed more in the breach, meaning that what was once
etiquette on the telephone is being ignored in this day of ubiquitous cell
phones, cell phone pictures, text messaging, etc. There are instances of
downright rudeness which my husband really gets mad about, like taking
calls on the telephone in public places, like a concert hall or movie
theatre, and loudly carrying on a conversation with someone who is not even
present, to the distress of all around the speaker.

So, this long discourse means that people who use poor etiquette on the
phone are jumping into the break down of polite useage of telephones.

As to "cell phone" versus "mobile phone" -- they are two different types of
telephone. Your "old, normal" telephone is now called a "land line" because
the telephone is tethered to a wall jack and can only be carried around as
far as the cord allows.

A mobile telephone is actually a radio transmitter. So is a cell phone. The
difference is that a cell phone carries its own battery around and only
needs to be charged up. A mobile telephone has a base station to which it
must be returned fairly frequently. The mobile telephone cannot be beyond
the range of its base. The cell phone has no base station, but maintains
its radio contact with the towers and needs to be in range of towers. A
mobile telephone has a limited range of a few hundred feet. Some cell
telephones can be carried all over the world because towers which will
service them are around the globe or some of the cell phones may actually
operate off satellites.

My knowledge of the engineering involved is limited, so my explanation may
be poor. But, although a cell phone is mobile (can be moved and does not
have a cord), it is not the same as a mobile telephone, which can be moved
but has a base station.

Well, it's past bed time here, so I'll send this out and look tomorrow to
see if there was more for me to answer. I am about 2 - 3 days behind on
answering (and reading) email, so please bear with me.
Lynn

>Hello Ignacio!
>
>I have to tell you that this is the first time I have ever heard this
>idiom.  Since honor is spelled "honoured" which as you know is British, I am
>guessing it is probably an idiom which has stayed on that side of "the
>pond."  And as you mentioned, it seems to come from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
>
>Now if Lynn were around, she might know this better than I, since she has a
>lot of knowledge that I don't have, and she might contradict me.  But
>speaking from my point of view, the idiom is unknown to me.
>
>As for "mobile phone," my son informed me that this is commonly said in UK
>and Australia to refer to a "cell phone."  He has heard it pronounced, and
>"mobile" is pronounced with a long "i".  "Mobile" would then rhyme with
>"smile," "I,"night."  This is unlike what I say.  I would say it "mobile" to
>rhyme with "full," "pull," etc.
>
>The other spellings are the same as in the US.
>
>There are many differences between British English and American English!! :
>)
>
>This is totally off the topic....but the teacher I had in the university who
>taught the classes in Shakespeare died recently, and her funeral was
>yesterday.  She was a very sweet lady. Whenever I think of Shakespeare, I
>think of her.
>
>Sue
>
>
>
>
>On Oct 30, 2007 12:56 AM, Pedro Ignacio Errico <ignafiuba@...>
>wrote:
>
>>   Hello everyone,
>>
>> This is an excerpt from a message that was posted in
>> another list today:
>>
>> "That is a rule of telephone etiquette that is
>> probably honoured more in the breach than in the
>> observance these days when everybody has a mobile
>> phone."
>>
>> (Referring to what one should say when picking up the
>> phone)
>>
>> It was written by someone from the UK.
>>
>> At first, the expression "more honoured in the breach
>> than in the observance" baffled me. I looked it up in
>> my dictionary, but there was no reference to it.
>>
>> I was wondering if our members from the US understand
>> this idiom. If so, do you use it?
>>
>> As for the spelling of words: in the US, people would
>> write 'honor' instead of 'honour'. Are there any other
>> words in the text I quoted above that look (or sound)
>> different from what you're used to?
>>
>> For instance, how about 'mobile phone'? I think both
>> 'cell phone' and 'mobile (phone)' are common in the
>> US, but I'm not completely sure.
>>
>> If you are wondering what the expression means (I
>> was!):
>>
>> A simple web search immediatly revealed that it means
>> "a rule which is more often broken than observed."
>> Apparently, it has its origin in Shakespeare's
>> "Hamlet".
>>
>> Source: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/250200.html
>>
>> As usual, your comments and corrections are most
>> welcome!
>>
>> Ignacio
>>
>> Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?
>> www.yahoo.de/mail

Me gusta jugar a las cartas
   clases correct
   classes incorrect

Margarita <meh471@...> escribió:
   Hola! Me llamo Margaret, soy de Missouri, USA. Quiero aprender
espanol. Me gusta jugar las cartas y ver television. Voy a escuela
para literatura ingles, pero tengo classes espanoles tambien. Envia un
mensaje!

Hi! My name is Margaret, I am from Missouri, USA. I want to learn
spanish. I like to play cards and watch television. I'm going to
school for a degree in English Literarature, but i have spanish classes
too. I'm thinking about minoring in Spanish. Send me a message, let's
be friends!

Margaret



=================================================================
Sitio wiki: http://spanishenglish.wiki-site.com/

Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos








---------------------------------

Yahoo! Noticias
Todo lo que tenés que saber sobre Elecciones Presidenciales 2007 encontralo en
Yahoo! Noticias.
  http://ar.news.yahoo.com/elecciones2007/

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Hi everybody,
   improve correct
   improve incorrect
   English with capital letters

Gonzalo <gon_mora_a@...> escribió:
   Hi every body.

I´m new in this site. My name is Gonzalo and más first languaje is
spanish, but i´m training to improbe my english. I know thant i have a
long road to walk before start to using the english whith in a real
nature way.

Nice to meet you all¡¡



=================================================================
Sitio wiki: http://spanishenglish.wiki-site.com/

Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos








---------------------------------

Yahoo! Noticias
Todo lo que tenés que saber sobre Elecciones Presidenciales 2007 encontralo en
Yahoo! Noticias.
  http://ar.news.yahoo.com/elecciones2007/

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Hola Margarita,

Bienvenida, te hice algunas correcciones:

M> Hola! Me llamo Margaret, soy de Missouri, USA.  Quiero aprender
M> espanol.

  Me gusta jugar a las cartas y ver television.

Voy a la escuela para aprender literatura inglesa, pero tengo clases de español
tambien.
Enviame un mensaje!





--
Saludos,
  Raul_E                            mailto:rauler@...

[Se han eliminado los trozos de este mensaje que no contenían texto]

Hi every body.

I´m new in this site. My name is Gonzalo and más first languaje is
spanish, but i´m training to improbe my english. I know thant i have a
long road to walk before start to using the english whith in a real
nature way.

Nice to meet you all¡¡

Hola! Me llamo Margaret, soy de Missouri, USA.  Quiero aprender
espanol.  Me gusta jugar las cartas y ver television.  Voy a escuela
para literatura ingles, pero tengo classes espanoles tambien.  Envia un
mensaje!

Hi!  My name is Margaret, I am from Missouri, USA.  I want to learn
spanish.  I like to play cards and watch television.  I'm going to
school for a degree in English Literarature, but i have spanish classes
too.  I'm thinking about minoring in Spanish.  Send me a message, let's
be friends!

Margaret